Transcript:
This is I Choose Life News and Views sponsored by Indiana Right to Life and Right to Life of Northeast Indiana, committed to defending innocent human life for all people of all ages.
Your hosts are Cathie Humbarger, Abigail Lorenzen, and Scott Kump.
I Choose Life News and Views is produced by Bott Radio Network in Fort Wayne in cooperation with Indiana Right to Life as well as Right to Life of Northeast Indiana.
Franciscan Fireworks is donating 10% of sales to Right to Life. Visit Franciscanfireworks.com and enter code rtlni at checkout.
Cathie: This is Cathie Humbarger and this segment of the program we’re going to have returning guest, a very special friend of mine, and a friend of the unborn and mothers across the state of Indiana, Attorney General Curtis Hill. Attorney General Hill is the 43rd Attorney General of the state of Indiana. He was formerly the prosecuting attorney for Elkhart County, and Attorney General Hill was elected in 2016 with more votes than any other elected official in state history. In my experience in pro-life advocacy, I can say without a doubt that Attorney General Hill is the most aggressive Attorney General regarding defending pro-life legislation passed by the Indiana General Assembly and signed in by the governor in our state’s history.
Welcome to I Choose Life News and Views, Attorney General Hill.
AG Hill: Cathie, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Cathie: Well, we’re always glad to welcome you to the radio station and to our program. As of, I don’t know, two or three weeks ago, we’ve been hearing so much about Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter, Unborn Lives Matter and as people who are pro-life and value every single life, we’re a little confused by some of these slogans. What say you, General Hill?
AG Hill: Well, you know it’s interesting, you know whenever we have slogans because they’re a reflection of what’s going on in our culture, what’s going on in the minds of people. And the Black Lives Matter movement, if you will or slogan if you will, is one of particular interest because you know it really lights a fire, depending on really what your particular perspective is. And I know I’ve been asked a question in the past where somebody said well, Black Lives Matter, why do they say that, they should say All Lives Matter, that’s racist and discriminatory and my response has been interesting because you know I think it helps audiences understand because what I’ve been able to point out is that many in the black community look at Black Lives Matter from a historical perspective and they recognize that historically, in America, black lives have often not mattered or not mattered much. If you go back into pre-colonial America, when blacks were brought here in bondage and treated as property, it did not appear that black lives mattered much, and when you move forward, to the creation of our country, the United States of America, through our Constitution, you have to recall a great flaw in that document that recognized blacks as three fifths human. Again, not a real indication that black lives mattered or that black lives mattered much. Then as you move forward through history, into slavery and post slavery and reconstruction America and on into Jim Crow segregation, mob lynchings, and you can go on and on. I think you’re starting to get my point, which is just that black lives have not always mattered, and the black community is very familiar with that. So, in today’s environment where most would say, or many would say, we’ve come so far in race relations, why do you dwell in the past? The past has become an integral part of the make-up of the black community and without understanding that make up, it would be very difficult for somebody to really understand the meaning of Black Lives Matter to certain people. So, I think it’s important that we look at it from that perspective, from the historical perspective and the individual perspective and not be so threatened by it because the one thing that we can say is that the moment when we determine that black lives do matter, we will have been able to say that all lives in fact do matter.
Cathie: Exactly. Well, as pro-life people, we know that abortion has taken more black Americans’ lives than every other cause of death combined since 1973. The abortion rate for black women is almost four times that of white women and on average 900 black babies are aborted each and every day here in the United States. Our own Indiana State Department of Health reported that in 2018, there were 2,455 abortions performed on black women in Indiana which was 30.5% of all abortions, while the population of blacks is 13.4% here.
AG Hill: Yeah, those numbers are very indicative of what’s going on in America. In fact, the number of black babies aborted in Indiana is, I understand, a little lower than the national average around 36% which the interesting thing about that number of 36% is that it’s very consistent with the incarceration rate of the black community of 35%, as compared with that 13%, so there is something horribly wrong with the incarceration rate, with the abortion rate, and we have to get the basis of this. I think it has to do with our culturally, how we’re being brought up, how we’re being raised, and disintegration of the family. We have lots of children having children, and therefore we’re also having children having abortions. And of course you know Cathie, in the state of Indiana, we’re opposing abortion laws that suggested minors can get abortions without parental consent.
Cathie: Right.
AG Hill: Those types of situations create an environment where just about anybody can get an abortion, including those who are uninformed and not knowledgeable about the ramifications and also the regret that comes now later, and it’s awful because we’re seeing that little black baby boys and little black baby girls are not even being born to have the opportunities of life that other children are able to have.
Cathie: Absolutely. Well you’ve certainly done your part in your role as Attorney General to investigate complaints that are filed and defend pro-life laws in court and I want to say when I bring an issue, a complaint for example to the Attorney General’s office, I don’t expect the Attorney General’s staff to immediately jump on whatever I brought to their attention. My desire is for them to look at the concern carefully and determine if there is valid reason to take action, so even though I know your heart General Hill is absolutely pro-life, I do appreciate the level of fairness that you bring to the table because it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that I would bring something that I think really has merit, but it really has no legal foundation, so I want to thank you and your staff for addressing the issues that we bring to your attention in such a professional way, so while you have done all of these things that you can do in your official capacity, what else can we do to reach the black mothers and fathers to make giving their child life more attractive?
AG Hill: Well one thing that you guys do so well is that you do look at situations where the laws that place appropriate restrictions in place are being followed and getting that information to us. I want to thank you and your friends for gathering information and for also understanding that our job is to make sure that there is compliance, but often times we do need to make decisions that have very little to do with my personal feelings, but have everything to do with the Constitution and the Indiana statutes. One of the things that we have to do as we continue to fight for life is that we need to make sure that we provide assistance to those who find themselves with a child or with a child coming and no resources. It’s very difficult to, well, it’s easy to tell someone don’t get an abortion and encourage them not to get an abortion, but these are often times individuals who have limited means, who may have insufficient support mechanisms and support systems in place and may just not be in a position to have a baby and know how to care for it. And if it comes upon us to make sure that we’re able to provide resources to embrace to help people when they make that decision to keep their baby, save their baby, save their life. If you’re coming across to try to do everything that you can to provide assistance or support, you’re making sure that that life can now be protected and the mother has every means and mechanism available to her to be a mother and to be a positive mother for her baby.
Cathie: Absolutely. And I would be remiss if I didn’t encourage our listeners to find your local pregnancy resource center. They’re all over the state of Indiana. They far outnumber abortion facilities, so call them up and tell them that you want to get involved. There’s a place for you in this fight and the pregnancy resource centers do amazing work coming alongside women who are in an unplanned pregnancy or a difficult pregnancy. They help her before the baby’s born and some of them have even gone to the hospital during delivery and they stay with her after the baby is born as well. So, there are ways that you can help. Everybody’s effort is what we need in order to save babies’ lives here in Indiana and across the country, so that’s a very good reminder.
Cathie: Now before we run completely out of time, General Hill, I’d like to talk a little about the court cases. You referenced those earlier. I know there’s several that are at different stages of litigation throughout the legal system. If I recall correctly, there are three now pending in front of the supreme court, which means that they haven’t said that they won’t hear them, but they haven’t said they will, but last year we had a huge win when the respectful disposal legislation was actually upheld by the supreme court by overturning the lower courts’ injunctions, but there was another part of that legislation that I’d like to get your thoughts on. Included in that specific bill that was passed by thr legislature and signed into law by the governor, then governor Mike Pence, caused abortions to be illegal if they were based on discrimination, race, sex, disability, all the things that we typically think of when people are discriminated against. The supreme court did not uphold that law, but I know you have some thoughts about that.
AG Hill: Well, it was an interesting decision, you see a split decision. We got a big, big win on the fetal remains aspect which we saw thrown into play in part through the discovery of the Klopfer abandoned babies in Illinois, but the second part of that bill was very interesting because as you pointed out Cathie, it was a bill that protected the unborn interests in being discriminated against in terms of an abortion being done solely on the basis of unwanted characteristics and what was interesting about that denial was that it wasn’t the total law. Justice Thomas wrote an admirable twenty page descent, well actually not so much of a descent but he agreed with the decision. It was more of a guidance for what should happen in the future. In his writing, he pointed out that the eugenics background of abortion. Abortion was used or utilized as a mechanism that was used for eliminating defects or thought to be defects or unwanted characteristics. So, it was a way to eliminate black children or children with varied handicaps which was precisely what this legislation was about. What Justice Thomas did in his opinion was that he acknowledged that when the majority opinion was correct in that there was not sufficient controversy from a procedural standpoint to weigh in on this issue at this time.
Cathie: At this time.
AG Hill: Yep, at this time. So he pointed out that this was an issue that needed to be decided and really should just, what I thought, was to stage legislation in this realm so that the particular controversy in the various federal districts could raise the issue back to the court, so the court could legitimately address the issue back to the court so that the court could address the issue based upon their rules for engagement, and I think it was very hopeful from his perspective that the make-up of the court and the rationale which has been applied thus far would lend itself to a fairer ruling.
Cathie: And I think that will happen sooner, rather than later. And we pray to that end. I know you’re on a tight schedule, General Hill, so I appreciate you giving us your candid opinion about some hot button issues that we’re reading about in the news every day it seems like. I encourage our listeners to pray for you and your family as you continue to move forward to do what’s right and may the Lord bless the rest of your day. I look forward to talking to you soon.
AG Hill: Thank you Cathie, I appreciate your support as always and I appreciate your listeners and I’m glad everybody’s well. Thank you.
Scott: I’d like to follow up on the conversation you just heard, particularly Indiana Attorney General Curtis Hill’s statement that “too often in our history, black lives have been treated as if they do not matter.” Those of us in the fight for life believe in the defense of all human life from conception until natural death, and what happened to George Floyd at the hands and knee of former police officer Derek Chauvin was anything but natural. The same could be said of what legally occurs in abortion clinics on a regular basis.
Scott: Now reading from an FRC article: “It’s okay to protest a black man’s death. It’s not okay it turns out to protest millions of them. That much was clear when two pro-lifers were hauled away from a New York City abortion clinic in handcuffs in the middle of the George Floyd riots.” The two pro-lifers in question are Beverly Beatty and Edmee Chavannes, both African American Christian women. They along with many others wonder why so many people who claim to be offended by racism give a pass to a trade that kills more black people than police or even well over 100 years of lynch mobs. Is there a more blatant example of systemic racism than our own government funding organizations like Planned Parenthood, which disproportionately targets African Americans? I’m Scott Kump and today on I Choose Life News and Views I’ve asked Angela Minter, president and co-founder of Sisters for Life to join us over the phone and address this. Welcome Angela!
Angie: Oh, thank you so much for having me out. I’m blessed to be here.
Scott: You’ve been a guest on our program before, but for those who are not familiar with your organization, please tell us about Sisters for Life.
Angie: Sisters for Life is a Christian non-profit organization whose headquarters is located here in Louisville, KY, and we have been assigned by God to awaken, train, and mobilize the Church as a whole, but the historically black church in particular, to end abortion in our communities and to make certain that we are advocating for the mothers and fathers and families that find themselves faced with an unplanned pregnancy. My pastor, Pastor Cecil Bly, the Lord used him many years ago when he opened up my eyes about the abortion that my husband and I had when we were teenagers. The Lord used him when I was awakened to that, to really help me to receive forgiveness and then to educate me about the effect that abortion was having on the community, in particular, the black community. So, as a result of that, a question was asked, “what can we do?” and he asked me if I would be willing to actually go on radio, much like we’re doing today and that was some twelve years ago. Would I be willing to go on radio and share my story and the organization was birthed out of that.
Scott: And so you’re uniquely positioned to talk about not only the negative way that abortion effects the black community, but also the way that abortion hurts women because you’ve been personally hurt by it.
Angie: Absolutely. Hurt spiritually and physically, but thank God for Jesus and the blood of Jesus who forgives and then also expects us to, as the Scripture says, once you have been delivered, go and deliver your brother.
Scott: Amen. So what is the contact information for Sisters for Life?
Angie: Well, Sisters for Life’s website is sisforlife.org and our business cell number would be 502-408-2950, but that can also be found on our website, again sisforlife.org and we are Sisters for Life not to be confused with Sisters of Life.
Scott: Angela, I have to confess something to you. I have not watched the video footage of what happened to George Floyd. I just cannot bring myself to do it, you know just like I can’t bring myself to watch an abortion. I can’t imagine someone forcing the life out of you while you are powerless to do anything about it. My question though is this, why are so many people who are rightly saddened and even angry about what happened to this minority man, so called, used to, what happens to so many babies every day?
Angie: You know there’s a few different reasons for that, but I’ll just speak to the black community. You know the Scriptures said that “my people perish for lack of knowledge” and I truly believe that we have a great work to continue to do with educating the black community about the history of abortion, the history of Planned Parenthood, the targeting of our race, the actual history behind Planned Parenthood with Margaret Sanger and so forth. I just really believe that a lot of people are not really aware of that and in addition to that, you know, the issue of abortion has been so connected with politics that many people believe, in the black community, that if you are against abortion, then you must be republican or you must be for President Trump or these sorts of things, and so there is again a perishing for lack of knowledge, but I truly believe that this is a perfect time for us to really educate about the history and the racism behind Planned Parenthood and also the targeting, not only Planned Parenthood but other organizations that are doing abortions within the community.
Scott: You know in the midst of the protests that are happening in our country right now as a result of what happened to George Floyd, you know, many people are calling for police departments to be defunded. As others have pointed out, however, anyone who truly wants to protect black lives should begin by calling for us to defund Planned Parenthood.
Angie: Absolutely. If anyone needs to be defunded, it’s Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood has planted over 70% of their abortion facilities and I’m trying to be conservative with that number. But over 70% of their “killing mills” I call them are in the minority neighborhoods, within walking distance of the inner city. That’s not by accident, that is on purpose that they are doing that. Abortion is indeed the leading cause of death in the black community, and so for Planned Parenthood to say things like “we want to sincerely make sure that we’re offering a truth and we want to bring the black community justice” is really laughable because they are the ones who are targeting our race.
Scott: Yeah, they’ve sent out different letters and press releases and such in response to the racial tension and one of them started by saying, you know, we failed the black community or something like that. And you know, that’s more true than they’re willing to admit.
Angie: Well, absolutely true and again, when they say they failed the black community, I was reading one of their letters and thinking to myself and I remember my father telling me years ago that people can be sincere in what they believe, but they can also be sincerely wrong. And when I read that letter, I was thinking to myself, does the CEO Christine, I think it’s Charbonneau or something of that effect, does she really believe what’s she’s saying and what’s she’s writing and maybe she does. But you know, again, she is sincerely wrong, they have been perpetrating a crime and we have to seize this opportunity right now where people all around the country and all around the world are saying that black lives matter. We have this opportunity and we must say, yes, but we have to begin the conversation that even the unborn black lives matter, even in the womb and really seize the opportunity to have that conversation. You know I was looking in the news and reading in the paper, where it was talking about remarketing the Aunt Jemima syrup and I think it’s the Ben’s Rice and they’re going to change these pictures and things like that, so this is a huge opportunity for us. We’re taking a look at some of these things that have happened so many years ago in the racial injustice and the insensitivity and the reasons behind these things and we have to say that at this point in time, we need to talk about this issue as well where we are truly being targeted and this organization has a history of racism and we need to go about it and educate each other regardless of that and make sure that we speak up for our brothers and sisters even in the womb.
Scott: I’m Scott Kump and today on I Choose Life News and Views I’m speaking with Angela Minter, she’s the president and co-founder of Sisters for Life. We’re talking about the racial injustice going on in our country right now, and of course, there’s no more blatant example than the abortion industry and its subsidy in some cases by federal and state governments. Angela, what is your contact information again?
Angie: It’s sisforlife.org and then our business cell is 502-408-2950, and again that can be found on our website as well.
Scott: I want to point out, there are those in government who have tried and, to some degree, had some success in defunding or reducing the funds going to the abortion industry, but whether you are talking about federal or state government, there are multi-levels and sometimes you have the votes in one house and don’t have it in the other or you don’t have enough votes in that house to overcome a filibuster, so this is a very complicated issue, but we have to keep trying.
Angie: Absolutely. We have to keep trying. You know, just to quote Planned Parenthood again, they said that, “failure to speak, silence does make us complicit” and I think, you know, failure to do anything does make us complicit. We don’t need to grow weary in well doing, but we also need to make sure that we are tenacious in that we are speaking the truth in love and that we continue to expose the work that organizations like Planned Parenthood. And here in Louisville, we have an abortion clinic and I call them abortion mills. An abortion mill called EMW and interestingly enough, that EMW abortion mill, they average about 3,000 babies that they kill each year. Approximately 40% of them are black babies that they’re killing and it’s owned by a black doctor. The abortion doctor, Ernest Marshall, and so as you said, you know in the legislature, on the state level, on the federal level, what have you, we need to make sure that we certainly defund Planned Parenthood and at the same time, we need to shut down these other abortion facilities like the EMW so-called Surgical Center and others like it in our various cities that people are not as aware of.
Scott: 40% of the abortions are African American and I’m sure the African American population there is less than 40%.
Angie: Absolutely. Throughout the country, as a whole in this country, we only make up approximately 13% of the population, but interestingly enough, during the COVID-19 shutdown, our governors were calling us to shut down and here the governor, almost everything was shut down, just like everywhere else in the country was shut down with the exception of the abortion mills, Planned Parenthoods, and here in our state, in our city, the only abortion mill that we know is committing abortions every day is, Planned Parenthood was recently given a temporary license by the governor unfortunately, our new governor, Governor Beshear, but the EMW abortion facility was doing abortions every day during the COVID-19 shutdown and in the month of March, which is the most recent numbers that we have. In the month of March, there were 138 black babies killed, all black lives matter even in the womb, 138 again that was 40% of the total number that were killed. And again, that abortion facility was never asked to shut down and again they were considered by our governor as essential.
Scott: Well I don’t want to end on a negative note, so Angela, what kind of encouragement can you offer to our listeners?
Angie: I offer this, that God is faithful and what the devil made room for evil, God will use for his glory and that truth that we know will set people free. God is a prayer answerer God, he has given us an opportunity even in the midst of everything that’s going on, this is a tremendous opportunity for us to start the conversation in a way that we never have before for the black community. And again, the leading cause of death in our community is abortion, so this is a time where we are open to see what are the racial injustices, where is there some racism, what is going on, you know at every level. We are uncovering everything. Whether it be community organizations, whether it be cooperate America, in the Church, we want to see where is a racial injustice going on and so this is our opportunity in, what I like to say, the pro-abundant life community to start the conversation, but first before we do that we must have an ear to hear. We have to be empathic listeners. We cannot go in thinking that we have all the answers. We have to enter into people’s worlds, especially black folk right now, and have an ear to hear and be sensitive to the heartache and the pain of seeing people like George Floyd have the humanity just snuffed out of him like that. We have to have that ear to hear that and listen and at the same time, what about this issue here? Let’s talk about it and let’s learn what God has called people like Sisters for Life and others to do to be the answer.
Scott: I could not have said it better myself. Angela Minter of Sisters for Life, it has been far too long since you have been on our program, but we’re glad you were back today to keep us informed and thank you for joining us today.
Angie: Oh, thank you so much for having me. God bless you.
Scott: You’ve been listening to I Choose Life News and Views. If you have questions about this program or if you’d like to support the fight for life, please call 260-471-1849 or go to ichooselife.org because without the right to life, no other rights matter.
